My MAIN challenge to Flat Earth Proponents

About this sermon

There are several links to additional stuff you might be interested in. 1) An article on "raqia" or the Hebrew word we often see translated as "firmament." The big debate on this word is whether is implies the sky has a hard, solid dome or if it's just talking about an expansive space. I didn't cover it in today's video because it isn't about the shape of the earth. But, people are interested, so here's an article that Cultish put together on the topic. https://thecultishshow.com/blog/firmament-a-word-no-more 2) Cultish is a very interesting show which covers lots of fringe topics and a variety of groups from Charles Manson's group to Masons to the JW's strange Bible translation to the "cult of right wing politics." Here's them on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzOJll8dItg5NBpAuoXzHqRF4Rh_c5bbM Here's their website - https://thecultishshow.com/ You can also find them on podcast. 3) BibleThinker mugs can be found here. Read the whole page to see the discount code and shipping info. https://www.zockollpottery.com/product-page/new-bible-thinker-mug Allow me to react to some of the kinds of comments I expect to get on this video, since they also came in on the Cultish version of this interview which released earlier, and to make a few requests for those inclined to consider them. 1) Mike is biased, untrustworthy, disingenuous and generally bad. My response: That's a lot of bad stuff about me but you haven't touched my reasoning or handled the Bible in context in order to demonstrate your position. Please comment below with Bible verses that, when examined in full context, promote your view. And please don't just post a verse, post your interpretation of it as well so that we can all understand and learn. 2) No flat earth proponents use those verses. Mike isn't dealing with the real Bible verses we use. My response: That's definitely not true. I got these verses from flat earthers, I didn't make them up. However, it's true that many of those who say the Bible supports a flat earth never really get around to offering specific verses that you can examine. They tend to just reference the Bible more vaguely or lean on what someone else says about the Ancient Near East. If you reject these as flat earth Bible verses then you actually agree with me that those who use them (and plenty do) are misinterpreting the Bible for their purposes. However, if you have OTHER verses that support a flat earth then please comment below with Bible verses that, when examined in full context, promote your view. And please don't just post a verse, post your interpretation of it as well so that we can all understand and learn. 3) You should have a flat earth proponent on to talk about this stuff for themselves. My response: No thanks. I don't need to have every single person on my channel who I disagree with. Imagine the apostle Paul inviting Judaizers on tour with him or cowriting Galatians with someone who disagrees with him for, you know, objectivity. That's silly. I can handle views without turning my entire ministry into a debate and interview platform. I read plenty of flat earth literature and looked at plenty of videos from proponents in order to make sure I got Bible verses that were really being used to support that side. This complaint is merely a way of ignoring what I've said and saying I should have done something totally different. I'm not your puppet and this response ignores careful Bible study instead of considering it. I've got books by Rob Skiba and Dean Odle, and have had a private and long conversation with Dean Odle just to better understand his views. 4) Mike sees poetry but forgets that even poetry must have some connection to the thing it is describing. My response: I don't forget that. Let's take the "bars and doors" on the coastline poetry for example. I take it that there are "bars and doors" in the sense that there are limits but not that there are literal bars and literal doors or anything physical that corresponds to them. It's the effect they have which is the physical correspondence of the poetic symbol not the presence of something physical that very much acts like a bar or door. Flat earth proponents will likely take the exact same interpretation as me at that point. But when we read, in the exact same passage, that the earth has foundations they have a very literal view of it in all aspects. I know you hear me saying that a lot of FE verses are poetry but this isn't a compromise on my part. It's just the case that FE proponents offer up a bunch of Bible verses for their views and they happen to continually pick poetic ones. The flaw is in the FE verse choices, not those who recognize poetry. Sweeping dismissals will not be sufficient in the same way that verses with interpretations supported by the greater context of those verses will be. That's my challenge to you. Give a BIBLE study that supports your view. I don't think it can be done. https://BibleThinker.org