Kate Bowler on the Ache That Makes Us Human—and the Joy That Makes Us Whole

About this sermon

If you’ve ever found yourself quietly asking, Is this it?—if you’ve done all the right things and still feel that low, persistent ache—this conversation is for you. Jen and Amy sit down with beloved friend and author Kate Bowler to talk about her new book Joyful Anyway—a funny, tender, and deeply honest exploration of joy in a world that doesn’t always cooperate. This isn’t a “choose joy” pep talk. It’s a reframing of what it means to be human after the before-and-after story falls apart. Together, they name the ache—that “achy, stabby want” many of us carry—and explore why performing resilience is exhausting, why telling the truth matters, and how joy often shows up in unexpected ways: through beauty, absurdity, and attention to the present moment. Kate shares stories (including one unforgettable ER visit) and practices that help her “get in the way of joy,” from roadside detours to naming what has shaped us through her Burn Book/Resentment List practice. This episode is permission to stop fixing and start noticing. The ache may stay—but joy still finds a way in. In This Episode, We Discuss: ● Why the ache is part of being human—not something to eliminate ● The difference between happiness (fragile) and joy (unexpected and free) ● The exhaustion of “performing resilience” ● How telling the truth can loosen the grip of harmful narratives ● The Burn Book / Resentment List as a practice of naming what mattered ● “Roadside Joy Detours” and putting yourself in the way of joy ● How joy often arrives sideways—through absurdity, beauty, and attention Thought-Provoking Quotes: ● “I think there's a great mystery at the heart of the human experience and I wanted to explore joy as one of those unbelievable places.” – Kate Bowler ● “The purpose of that ache inside you is to get you to re-examine how it feels in your body, bring your honesty to it, and then ask, where can I go from here?” – Kate Bowler ● “I find that absurdity is one of the side doors to joy.” – Kate Bowler ● “Joy is asking us to step up to the edge of a mystery where we get momentary fulfillment and then we get life. And God is asking us to say that this is holy.” – Kate Bowler Tags: Kate Bowler, Joyful Anyway, midlife, emotional health, resilience, joy, grief, mental health, personal growth, spirituality, embodiment, burnout, women’s lives, healing, For the Love podcast Resources Mentioned in This Episode: ➢ Joyful Anyway by Kate Bowler - https://amzn.to/3ZWqNBT ➢ Kate Bowler book tour - https://katebowler.com/books/joyfulanyway/#tour ➢ Theo of Golden: A Novel by Allen Levi- https://amzn.to/4bdpN2q Guest’s Links: Website - https://katebowler.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/katecbowler/ Twitter - https://x.com/katecbowler Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/katecbowler Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCf8m7lNdR7YVieU0muCg5cg TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@katecbowler Substack - https://katebowler.substack.com/ Podcast - https://katebowler.com/podcasts/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.

Topics

• Joy