[BONUS] The Rest of Our Lives: A Conversation About the Long Middle with Ben Markovits

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What happens after the dream you built your life around ends? In this tender and searching conversation, Jen and Amy sit down with acclaimed novelist Ben Markovits to talk about his forthcoming novel The Rest of Our Lives, a story that lingers in the quiet spaces of midlife, marriage, parenting, friendship, and the reckonings that arrive when the future you imagined no longer fits. The book has been shortlisted as a finalist for the Booker Prize. Together, they explore what happens when the life you worked toward doesn’t quite deliver what you expected—and how that realization ripples through family, intimacy, and identity. Ben speaks honestly about ambition, the grief of letting go of former selves, and the surprising beauty found in showing up for the people you love in ordinary, unglamorous moments. He and Jen also reflect on the parallels between the fictional story he wrote and the personal story Jen told in Awake. This episode is for anyone standing in the long middle of life, caring for children or parents (or both), wondering how to hold disappointment without becoming hardened—and how to love the life in front of you without pretending it’s easy. It’s a conversation about endurance, tenderness, and the brave, ongoing work of choosing one another as the years keep unfolding. If you’ve ever asked yourself, Is this really it?—and then quietly hoped the answer might still be no, not yet—this one is for you. Thought-Provoking Quotes “The author of Anatomy of a Murder said that writing a novel is like driving on a mountain road late at night. You should know where you're trying to get to, and you should be able to see 30 yards in advance. I guess I have some sense of where I want to get to and then I spend a lot of time watching the next 30 yards.” — Ben Markovits “I like to write about characters who feel like the place they have made for themselves in the world doesn't totally express their sense of who they are.” — Ben Markovits “I love the way you write all the backstories of everything because I'm someone who wants to ask 20 questions about what was the furniture in the in-laws’ beach house like and how did that shape the family dynamic that he married into? … You answered all of my questions as I was reading.” — Amy Hardin “At a certain point in marriage, you have your fingerprints all over each other.” — Ben Markovits “I love when characters are human—flawed, curious, confused—just really working out their own story. I’m drawn to stories like that that aren’t necessarily tidy.” — Jen Hatmaker Tags midlife long middle marriage parenting identity ambition disappointment tenderness endurance literature novels writing fiction ben markovits awake jen hatmaker for the love podcast Resources Mentioned in This Episode: ➢ The Rest of Our Lives: A Novel by Ben Markovits – https://amzn.to/4qanlhM ➢ The Booker Prizes | Ben Markovits – https://thebookerprizes.com/the-booker-library/authors/ben-markovits ➢ Anatomy of a Murder by Robert Traver – https://amzn.to/3YAUTKc ➢ Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker – https://amzn.to/4qaARlw ➢ Phineas Redux by Anthony Trollope – https://amzn.to/4qiOPSN ➢ Starting Out by Ben Markovits – https://www.faber.co.uk/journal/faber-announces-the-acquisition-of-a-new-novel-by-ben-markovits/#:~:text=It%20will%20be%20published%20in,' ➢ New York Times – out 12/21 ➢ Atlantic Excerpt – ➢ The Rest of Our Lives Book Tour – https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Rest-of-Our-Lives/Ben-Markovits/9781668231562 Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.simonandschuster.com/authors/Ben-Markovits/250699726 Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.

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